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 Home > News > Story

Published - Friday, March 23, 2007

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A messy situation: Flooding along private road raises questions

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When you live on a private road, getting emergency help is a little more difficult than a homeowner would think. Folks who live in the Scenic Valley Addition near Maple Grove Country Club found that out last week when snowmelt overwhelmed their storm sewer system and flooded streets and basements along Ceresa Drive.

“Trying to get help out here was a nightmare,” said resident Curt Edwardson. He spent hours wading through water in hip waders to find the manhole covers and clear them. His wife Janelle said she was on the phone three hours trying to get help.

“I don’t know whether to siphon the two-feet of water in the basement through the bathroom or the utility room or where,” said Margette Longworth.

Longworth said someone with the transportation department called to say her children had been dropped off at another location because of flooding and she needed to go home to pick them up.

Apparently the school bus couldn’t get through the water.

Longworth and close to 36 other homeowners along Ceresa Drive found out emergency response to their area was a bit of a bureaucratic mess.

Because the development is private and the road is private, the town of Hamilton has no jurisdiction for services. The residents have a homeowners association and contract for road and other services.

Debris from the neighboring farm had washed down onto the street and was clogging the drains, adding to the flooding problem. The deluge occurred due to the sudden melting of snow on the golf course and the farm field to the south of them.

One home had five feet of water in its basement.

For hours, Edwardson pushed his way through the water with a rake keeping the drains cleared.

“It started about noon,” Edwardson said. “But no one would come because it’s a private drive.” His wife had first called the West Salem Fire Department who gave her the names of every member of the Hamilton Town Board. She called them all.

Her main concern was getting the manholes uncovered but she said she could not get anyone to understand that.

“We finally called La Crosse fire department and they told us to call 9-1-1. I did. I talked to them three times. They had me get off the emergency line and call dispatch.

“Meanwhile my house is being flooded. Everyone was waiting on someone else. I know they weren’t prepared. As the homeowner trying to save the house, it was very frustrating. Everyone was willing to evacuate us but we just wanted help.”

Somehow a message got to somebody at the emergency management department of La Crosse County, who contacted the West Salem Fire Department. By the time West Salem firefighters got there, it was about 3:30 and the water was waist deep.

While Fire Chief Dave Munson said they didn’t have to respond because of the ownership issue, they did. “We came to help them out.”

The fire department provided pumps to drain the water back into the field behind the houses. They also used the fire truck to ferry residents into and out of the development.

While the development was platted in 1995 and recorded in 1998, the residents had never had an emergency like this.

“Every once in a while when the snow melts, we’ll get a lot of water,” Edwardson said. “But nothing like this.”

Town Supervisor Eve Zellmer was there helping to ferry residents after the fire department had to leave for another potential flooding situation.

The Hamilton Town Board met that night and decided not to bill the homeowner’s association for the fire department and road crew services.

“We’ll absorb this to assist the citizens in this natural disaster,” Zellmer said.

While residents fight with insurance companies for damages, everyone’s asking who’s responsible helping the residents of the area in emergencies.

Zellmer indicated that when the development began, the developer had to maintain the road for three years. Then the town could take over if the residents wished.

The residents never petitioned the town for taking over. They formed a homeowner’s association and pay dues and contract with vendors to do maintenance work. When a new house is being built, the homeowner has to cut the road to put in sewer hookups.

Zellmer said to have the town take over now the residents would have to bring the road up to town specifications, which could cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. They would have to petition the town for it.

“The leaders of the homeowners association would have to get motivated to fix the problems,” Zellmer said. “The town of Hamilton will offer support and guidance. But the solution is in their court.”

Edwardson said something needs to be done.

“Either work with the farmer to build a berm or with the golf course.

“I don’t want to do this again. We got lucky," he said. "We feel fortunate the damage wasn’t as bad as we were afraid it could be.”
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fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 28, 2007 7:58 PM:

" To Miss Confused, Your point is well taken also! Once again, my sympathy goes out to all the homeowners. How much time was spent in the engineering study and final documents? Was the process substandard? The people up there may not know -legally speaking- where the process started going wrong, at this point of time anyhow. It sounds like there are plenty of opinions, accusations and ideas on the "who, what, when, where and why" of things. Rightfully so! From buildings to subdivisions, the DeForest Area Fire District here is involved in the process right from the get-go. Our recommendations and comments are strictly from a standpoint of public safety. But that process begins from the time it is proposed on paper, through the construction phase, and onward during the life of the building or subdivision. We are not always successful in our endeavors but the end result is always something we strive for and that is: a much safer, happy and proud community. The acronym TEAM here has meaning. Together Everyone Achieves More. "

fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 28, 2007 7:32 PM:

" We throw stuff into the microwave and out it pops, seconds later. It is done! It seems that everything we do in our daily lives are programed that way. It is quantity v/s quality. It is hard to have both in an equal manner. I am shedding some light on the subject here from a different perspective. Since I am a FORMER resident of the coulee region (LaCrosse and Town of Shelby), I honestly know I cannot serve thought or judgement against anyone. I hope things can be worked out and that the responsible party or parties step up to the plate and work out the damage claims or judgements amicably. Since so many were involved in this development -like almost any other large scale project- it may take awhile to sort out the facts. Good luck to all. "

fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 28, 2007 7:17 PM:

" well, I am back. My statement remains the same as it did before. For all of us and everyone else (that about covers the entire population doesn't it??, it seems that, we ALL want to save money somewhere, regardless what we are doing. NO. I am not defending the developer nor anyone else that may be a potential defendant here, given the case of possible impending litigation. But I would like to say this: Land owners, contractors, surveyors, developers, engineers, and other contracting firms do have a responsibility to provide and ensure that good workmanship is being practiced and adhered to during the entire development process. This is spelled out in many codes and ordinances. In this day and age, everyone "wants the job done yesterday". This is what I call our "microwave society." I will explain in the next message. "

help wrote on Mar 28, 2007 1:28 PM:

" Where is the county when you want em?? I understand Maple Grove is planning to build apartments now also I can only hope that they are held to strict standards and not let to do as they please.Maybe if the golf course would step up to the plate they would not have so many angry with them "

Observer wrote on Mar 27, 2007 3:38 PM:

" There were many comments posted but they were removed shortly after I posted. I didn't say they didn't need help clearing the debris but once they did the water went down pretty fast. He did have to wade in the water for several hours because the drain covers kept getting clogged again. "

re: observer wrote on Mar 27, 2007 2:21 PM:

" Reread the story, that is where the comments are coming from. It states that Edwardson, waded through the water for HOURS looking for the manhole cover. And why did they call so many people for help, if it is how you claim (blown way out of proportion). "

Observer wrote on Mar 27, 2007 11:10 AM:

" For the information of the readers of these comments I think you should know that they are all made by people that are very uninformed. For the most part they don't know what they are talking about and I wouldn't put much credence in the information. I was there visiting a friend that day and the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Only 3 of the 36? houses suffered any damage and once the drain covers were cleared of the debris the storm sewer handled the water fine and it was gone in a few hours. There are some changes that need to be made on the field side and the golf course side to help divert the water in the future however. "

to what' wrote on Mar 27, 2007 9:01 AM:

" know your facts before making statements,,There are no drainfields there ,it is (maple groves) sewer system,,Tony cut every corner he could when building this addition,and it has reared its ugly head up again but this time at a rather large cost to the homeowners,The county must do there job and make maple grove fix the problem..They claim it was the run off from the snow,,It takes 1 inch of rain to make 1 foot of snow so we all know we did not have that much snow, This is a case of cutting corners for the most profit..MAPLE GROVE should be held accountable for all damages..It goes along with the road problems. Ceresa drive is in need of repairs badly, the owners of maple grove want the residents to pay. What about all the dump trucks that go through there for new homes.(maple grove sold the lots and reaped the profits but now the homeowners are expected to pay for road repairs...Why does the county put road restrictions up for dump trucks because they cause damage) Bottom line is this the sewer system did not do its job maple grove owns the sewer system they should pay!!! "

Miss Confused wrote on Mar 27, 2007 7:34 AM:

" Mr. fire engine driver/operator-Your point is well taken. My frustration is from the lack of consistency on the part of village. They need to standardize their policies for situations like this. This particular development should never have been allowed without an engineering study and/or if they did have one, that engineering firm should be liable. Every project that I have been involved in (several large scale)comes under much scrutiny by the village/city/town/county and state. How did this development not have to follow the same procedures??? "

To fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 26, 2007 11:50 PM:

" Perhaps it is impossible to foresee every possible situation, but this is a classic example of getting what you pay for. Too many of these developers cut costs by not hiring qualified engineers, then build private roads and drainage that are cheaper and substandard. The buyers see a low cost paradise and skip all the fine print that details the risks. When the inevitable happens, they want to know who is 'responsible' and someone else to fix the problem and pay for it. These poor folks got soaked in more ways that one! "

What? wrote on Mar 26, 2007 2:21 PM:

" I forgot, I also contacted the county HHS department and requested that ALL these septic systems by inspected. If you had five (5)+ feet of water in your basement, there is a good chance your drain field is water logged and will need to be replaced. The costs just keep adding up, don't they! "

What? wrote on Mar 26, 2007 9:15 AM:

" Just look at another article in the Tribune about RADON GAS. At one time, most of these lots where farmers fields. Let's track back to the farmers that owned them, and then file a huge lawsuit against their estates/children/grandchildren for this RADIOACTIVE RADON gas problem. See how silly that sounds. The developer CAN'T be expected to plan for every contingency, which is what insurance is for. By the way, the standard HO policy would consider this a flood and would NOT cover it. You are ALL on your own, and besides, at what those houses/lots cost, you all can afford it. "

absent wrote on Mar 26, 2007 8:32 AM:

" Where is Maple Grove during all this flooding and why did we not hear there side of this in the paper.. "

what next wrote on Mar 24, 2007 4:11 PM:

" The developers should pay all damages!!!They have been a thorn since 1980 and they need to be held accountable "

fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 23, 2007 9:42 PM:

" to Mr. "Confused", Are you saying that the FD should bill the homeowners? Maybe so. Maybe not. How about those others (taxpayers, too!) that call for help. Should all those be billed too? To mr. Confused, let's say that, for example, you started a small leaf pile on fire and wanted to burn it. Let's say that it is legal in your locality to do that. But let's say that the homeowner next door saw the small pile as a threat and that it was unattended, the minute you went into the house to fetch a soda. You came out a minute later and the fire was still burning just as it was when you left it. And your neighbor called the FD because the only time he looked out and saw the fire was when you werent attending it. Who should be billed? Forget it. That is what that public safety charge is for on each and everyone's tax bill at the end of the year. "

fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 23, 2007 8:46 PM:

" I ran out of room in the last posting but I wanted to extend my admiration to the volunteers of the WSFD for going out on a limb and helping out the affected, beleagured homeowners. I am a firefighter in the Madison, WI area and know first-hand the pitfalls of private v/s public maintenance/ownership of our infrastructure. Associated with either one, there are good things and not-so-good things. One thing that all private neighborhood associations should do is to put in place an emergency incident management plan. It is one more thing to do and worry about, and it may be easier said than done. But it might make the next emergency easier to deal with. After all, the finger-pointing can come after the mess has been successfully mitigated!! "

fire engine driver/operator wrote on Mar 23, 2007 8:23 PM:

" No one can foresee or accurately predict the calamities that will occur later on, in the life of a subdivision. All of us try to get by with as much as we can by paying as little as possible. That is human nature. Those that point fingers at the developer are right. The developers that make the money off of buyers and homeowners, are pinching pennies and perhaps getting by on the minimim standards or zoning codes. Those standards for development are just that - perhaps minimum. They may not take into account the 100 year old flood per se. Who's at fault and who isn't? Leave it up to the courts to decide. After all..... in today's world: Like trash that winds up in a landfill, so does our differences that end up in court. We need more lawyers!!!!!!!! "

Tough luck wrote on Mar 23, 2007 6:15 PM:

" It's a private development, and a private road. What did they think would happen in that situation? Tough luck, but no sympathy for them. "

the reason for wrote on Mar 23, 2007 11:58 AM:

" The reason, that they never went to the town board to do anything, is because Maple Grove did it on the cheap and knew it would never pass town standards. I looked at buying out there but I wouldn't after seeing the shortcuts that Tony took to make a buck. To all residents good luck!! "

who engineered this wrote on Mar 23, 2007 10:49 AM:

" Maple Grove has a history of leaving people holding the wrong end of the stick..They made the profit they should pay the damages..The least the residents should do is have a study done on the existing system to see if this could happen in the future..I understand there is more plans for development there in the future if so the town should be more involved to stop this from happening again! "

Who engineered this? wrote on Mar 23, 2007 8:42 AM:

" A mere snow melt causes the storm sewers to overflow? Snow melt is peanuts compared to how fast the water flows in a heavy rain. Even a moderate rain, for that matter. Did anyone do an engineering study on this? I suppose they used 18 inch pipe instead of 36 inch pipe. The developer has to make maximum profit, after all. He then leaves you there, years later, holding the bag. "

Confused.... wrote on Mar 23, 2007 7:59 AM:

" We currently live in the town of Hamilton and had flooding basements and road in our subdivision. No one even considered calling emergency services and our road is owned and serviced by the town of Hamilton!! We all pitched in got it done!! All expenses incurred were out of our own pockets (several pumps, wet vacs, Advanced Pumping services, etc.) Our problems may not have been as severe but just as damaging! If you choose to live on a private road that was not built to town specifications you have chosen to open yourself to these problems. I have an issue with this association not being billed for the WS Fire Dept assistance!! Taxpayers money and private donations run the WS Fire Dept and I hope this association at the very least makes a donation to this respected hard working organization! "

same old stuff wrote on Mar 22, 2007 10:38 PM:

" Did maple grove help out? Nope but that is typical "

Eve Zellmer wrote on Mar 22, 2007 9:37 PM:

" One misquote, I said that typically a development puts in the road, maintains it for 3 years and then the town takes it over. Oops. "


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